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addictive buddhist

12-step program page

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Comment by crhills on December 14, 2011 at 6:17pm

I'm just noticing this is a page for those who live by the 12-Steps. Continued objection to that is disruption of the intent of the forum. So, I'll be taking this forum off my email alert list. Good luck to you all.

Comment by crhills on December 14, 2011 at 6:15pm

That's not really just an AA slogan. But, I agree with the sentiment. Live and let live. Some find it to be extremely religious. It's been ruled to be religious by several courts that have heard the issue. So the "it's not religious, it's spiritual" isn't entirely accurate. If that's what it takes for you to stay sober, yes, live and let live though. Congrats on your years of recovery.

Comment by Noel Tobin on December 14, 2011 at 5:49pm

I have been following your discussion over the last few days. I am going to use one of the AA slogans here LIve & Let Live. I was practicing 10 years before alcohol became a major problem for me I was out there five years in hell. I eventually used the 12 step programme and am sober 12 years. I look at the 12 steps as a spiritual pergramme and use my practice to keep me sober and it works for me. It is as simlpe as that. It is like to understand the power and wokings of MYO it goes beyond the words in the head.

Comment by crhills on December 14, 2011 at 1:06pm

I'm sure you already have a seeking mind. It's a natural reaction to the practice. Your comments are starting to feel like personal attacks. I don't believe I deserve that.

Comment by socalchillin on December 13, 2011 at 10:48pm

"I don't just take whatever I might hear at an AA meeting without question." Wow. Who does? 

Maybe one day I too can be blessed with a "seeking mind" of such great esteem as yours :P 

Agree with much of Prentiss' philosophy. "The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure" is an excellent book. Dont like to think of alcoholism as some sort of lifelong disease, and that there are deeper mechanisms at play that lead us to drink - ADD, anger, resentment. 

In any case, Happy Holidays to you as well!

Comment by crhills on December 13, 2011 at 9:57pm

Uh, there's been a warning not to engage in long discussion of issues. I don't really want to argue about this anyway. I have my opinions, which were formed through researching and personal experiences. I don't just take whatever I might here at an AA meeting without question. I got that habit from my practice. It's called a seeking mind.

Through a seeking mind I have developed a trust in my practice. But, when I applied the same techniques to AA/NA that wasn't the case. Like all of the people I've seen in this forum, I found myself struggling to see the 12-Steps from a Buddhist perspective. I have been able to work through some of the issues with it, through strong daimoku, guidance and encouragement, and looking inward for the source of my difficulties. Trying to find the underlying cause, in other words. I found that one of my problems is I tend to try to compare Bill Wilson, to Nichiren, or President Ikeda. Or AA/NA to the SGI. And when I continued to chant, answered started appearing around me in alternatives, that didn't pose the difficulties I have with the 12-Steps.

There's Smart Recovery, for instance, as well as Passages Addiction Cure. I'd encourage checking into both of those, for those struggling to fit the 12-Step into the Buddhist way of thinking. In any case, I'm not really arguing. I'm just presenting my honest opinion. I wish every member good luck with their recovery. And I have nothing against anyone, for any reason.

Merry Christmas...Happy New Year...Peace and goodwill...and "keep coming back".

Comment by socalchillin on December 13, 2011 at 7:23pm

"AA has about the same rate of success as not using any formal recovery at all." ????

Yikes. Ive been in AA a little over a year now, and although I dont know anybody that has recovered on their own, I must say Ive seen quite a few people make staggering progress in reclaiming some sanity in their lives. 

Im not sure what the argument is all about, but I think HHTDL would be the first to say that whats of most importance is becoming happy with oneself, and trying to be as caring and considerate as possible to those around you. Thats what AA does, even if it is theistic-centric(?). 

A large component of AA, in fact, is service to the community, doing good deeds not because you're forced to, but because you finally want to have a positive and productive effect on society for a change instead of allowing your addiction to immerse you in a damaging circle of self-absorption, fear, resentment, and anger. 

Have been sort of muddling through AA as best I could trying to reshape the steps to make sense from a Buddhist perspective, and yet have found it very helpful to my spiritual progress as well as recovery from my alcohol addiction to have a place where I can be honest with myself to others, and actively make strides to improve my awareness of the underlying reasons for my addiction to alcohol. 

Again, thanks RickyB, and to crhills Im not sure why you would so much resentment for a program that has literally helped tens of millions of people become better fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and fellow citizens. 

Comment by Dan on December 13, 2011 at 4:58pm

So far as I can read, everything that's been discussed has been so far very respectful.  Just a gentle reminder that these are just words and in an imperfect medium of communication as this 'comment wall' or 'forum discussions' provides.  You're welcome to exchange 'valid points' in the discussion forum above.  Try not to overuse the Coment walls below for expounding long exchanges of discourse and issues.  Thank you.

Comment by crhills on December 13, 2011 at 4:53pm

You seem to be taking this a little too personally. Of all the hundreds you know that it works for, there are about 500 that it doesn't work for. AA has about the same rate of success as not using any formal recovery at all. I'm glad it works for you. But, regardless of what religion a person is, it might not work for them. Then again it might work just fine. Depends on the individual I guess.

Comment by Ricky B on December 13, 2011 at 4:32pm

and you have every right to see it your Way..........

I guess I will tell all hundreds of People in AA that I know who are not Buddhist, that the 12 Steps never worked for them!

Please..........

AA, Says GOD as YOU UNDERSTAND HIM


 

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